Incredible points here. The point you emphasized that I most admire is how Jake's physical impotence symbolizes his spiritual shortcomings.
What makes this novel great is how Hemingway plants the seeds of deep theological issues, but with restrained prose, he never goes too far. Unlike so many other writers who spell everything out and beat people over the head with their ideas, Hemingway leaves these topics at the readers feet. Without going into religion, the novel still stands on its own two feet. But like the ground, the book can be dug into and hacked apart to reveal some powerful ideas. And it's so rewarding to discover these buried treasures on your own. The way you framed this is spot-on.
Thanks! And I agree on Hemingway’s minimalism. I love his balance of showcasing a deep awareness of the theological/spiritual woes of man, but never does he exhort to preaching. The less is more approach is what makes his works stand the test of time, I think because he respects the reader and doesn’t condscend or over-explain himself
“I doubt whether most people nowadays realize how enormous and appalling a shock the great war was, and was universally felt to be, with the possible exception of the black death, it was by far the greatest disaster which has ever befallen this country…
My generation grew up in its shadow. Before the great war, british people for the most part trusted their leaders, were proud of their country, and believed in progress, not anymore.
The general notion that leaders (and experts) are not to be trusted on any account, and that catastrophe is ever at hand, goes back to it… I absorbed it unconsciously, as part of growing up.” — Richard Adams
Very well said in regards to the impotence/emasculation of man.
To touch on Hemingway’s suicide, I think there are two helpful details. One, there appears to have been a misdiagnosed mental illness that ran through his family. Many other family members in his line also took their own lives, and it appears to have been a hereditary mental illness influencing said behavior.
In addition to being misdiagnosed, Hemingway was also subjected to grueling electro-shock therapy treatments against his will - which he lamented were destroying his mind.
So my personal understanding is Hemingway’s suicide appears far likely a moral failing than it does the tragedy of misdiagnosed mental illness, which harmed his mental faculties until he lost control of himself
Ken Kesey also examined the emasculation of modernity in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. In the book, the main antagonist is actually not Nurse Ratchet, it's "The Combine" as Bromden (narrator in the book, "Chief") calls modern society. We're all trapped in a big soulless machine that keeps us in a drugged out haze and lobotomizes any man with a big noncompliant spirit like Randall P. McMurphy. That's why Bromden plays mute, he's secretly a big man not just in body but in spirit but knows if he reveals himself, The Combine--modernity itself, not just the asylum--will get him. He's terrified and just silently mops in his camouflage.
The "goodness" you talk about that Hemingway orients his stories toward may be faith. In Kesey's telling, goodness is similar but more accurately described as a natural, unbroken man with a big spirit. Physicality, libido, interacting with nature, throwing a punch, laughing loudly, fraternity, etc. are all antithetical to what The Combine wants. At one point, Bromden even warns McMurphy on the verge of tears that The Combine is going to get McMurphy because he's a "big" man like his indigenous father. The Combine always wins, always breaks the big men. There's a possible Jesus crucification thread here too.
Bromden breaks out of the asylum at the end with the specific intent to go dip netting on the Columbia River for salmon like his father used to. After the events of the story, he's seen how The Combine works and it's time to bust outta there.
Your insight are fascinating, well directed and stated.
Im alway at you thread ylu literary guys can find among beauty falllen leaves in autumn.(dont over interpret the colorful autumn leaves. Thats just what came to mind. I couldnt get away from it )
Interesting yarn, Sean. This is one of my favourite novels. Second favourite of Hemingway's behind A Farewell to Arms. This quote always stuck with me: "You can't get away from yourself by moving from one place to another."
I've just put up something on Hemingway myself. My favourite writer. Take a look if you're interested...
Incredible points here. The point you emphasized that I most admire is how Jake's physical impotence symbolizes his spiritual shortcomings.
What makes this novel great is how Hemingway plants the seeds of deep theological issues, but with restrained prose, he never goes too far. Unlike so many other writers who spell everything out and beat people over the head with their ideas, Hemingway leaves these topics at the readers feet. Without going into religion, the novel still stands on its own two feet. But like the ground, the book can be dug into and hacked apart to reveal some powerful ideas. And it's so rewarding to discover these buried treasures on your own. The way you framed this is spot-on.
Great work, Sean.
Thanks! And I agree on Hemingway’s minimalism. I love his balance of showcasing a deep awareness of the theological/spiritual woes of man, but never does he exhort to preaching. The less is more approach is what makes his works stand the test of time, I think because he respects the reader and doesn’t condscend or over-explain himself
Sean, please would you put in the quote that you quoted this evening by Richard Adams, I think, and the lost generation.
Yes, I listened - not convinced me yet about Hemingway but I do have the book on my shelf so hopefully will get around to it.
Here it is!
“I doubt whether most people nowadays realize how enormous and appalling a shock the great war was, and was universally felt to be, with the possible exception of the black death, it was by far the greatest disaster which has ever befallen this country…
My generation grew up in its shadow. Before the great war, british people for the most part trusted their leaders, were proud of their country, and believed in progress, not anymore.
The general notion that leaders (and experts) are not to be trusted on any account, and that catastrophe is ever at hand, goes back to it… I absorbed it unconsciously, as part of growing up.” — Richard Adams
Thank you very much, Sean
Well thought out. Makes me want to reread some Hemingway.
Highly recommend it! He's great
Why is the title “emasculated”? It is not clear to me how being spiritually lost, per se, leads to emasculation in this argument?
Being impotent, unable to effect change, in oneself, in circumstances or relationships should be when you come to a place where you look without.
While this may not necessarily lead you to God, it should be a time when you cry out in search for one.
What I've never understood is Hemingway's comprehension of deep issues and yet his own suicide. I guess his characters were portraits of himself.
Very well said in regards to the impotence/emasculation of man.
To touch on Hemingway’s suicide, I think there are two helpful details. One, there appears to have been a misdiagnosed mental illness that ran through his family. Many other family members in his line also took their own lives, and it appears to have been a hereditary mental illness influencing said behavior.
In addition to being misdiagnosed, Hemingway was also subjected to grueling electro-shock therapy treatments against his will - which he lamented were destroying his mind.
So my personal understanding is Hemingway’s suicide appears far likely a moral failing than it does the tragedy of misdiagnosed mental illness, which harmed his mental faculties until he lost control of himself
Ken Kesey also examined the emasculation of modernity in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. In the book, the main antagonist is actually not Nurse Ratchet, it's "The Combine" as Bromden (narrator in the book, "Chief") calls modern society. We're all trapped in a big soulless machine that keeps us in a drugged out haze and lobotomizes any man with a big noncompliant spirit like Randall P. McMurphy. That's why Bromden plays mute, he's secretly a big man not just in body but in spirit but knows if he reveals himself, The Combine--modernity itself, not just the asylum--will get him. He's terrified and just silently mops in his camouflage.
The "goodness" you talk about that Hemingway orients his stories toward may be faith. In Kesey's telling, goodness is similar but more accurately described as a natural, unbroken man with a big spirit. Physicality, libido, interacting with nature, throwing a punch, laughing loudly, fraternity, etc. are all antithetical to what The Combine wants. At one point, Bromden even warns McMurphy on the verge of tears that The Combine is going to get McMurphy because he's a "big" man like his indigenous father. The Combine always wins, always breaks the big men. There's a possible Jesus crucification thread here too.
Bromden breaks out of the asylum at the end with the specific intent to go dip netting on the Columbia River for salmon like his father used to. After the events of the story, he's seen how The Combine works and it's time to bust outta there.
Your insight are fascinating, well directed and stated.
Im alway at you thread ylu literary guys can find among beauty falllen leaves in autumn.(dont over interpret the colorful autumn leaves. Thats just what came to mind. I couldnt get away from it )
Interesting yarn, Sean. This is one of my favourite novels. Second favourite of Hemingway's behind A Farewell to Arms. This quote always stuck with me: "You can't get away from yourself by moving from one place to another."
I've just put up something on Hemingway myself. My favourite writer. Take a look if you're interested...
https://laurencekaracsony.substack.com/p/from-the-vault-the-writer-with-the?r=njo95